This is an archived copy of a post written by Conflict Of Justice (conflictofjustice.com). Used with permission: Conflict Of Justice may not agree with any alterations made.
“Many Book of Mormon names and places are strikingly similar to many local names and places of the region Joseph Smith lived… This is all just a coincidence?”
(CES Letter)
CES Letter shows a ridiculous map by Vernal Holley, which cherry-picks eleven obscure names from thousands in a huge 210,000 square-mile five-state region of the United States and Canada. Then, Vernal Holley fits these names onto a map of the Book of Mormon that he fabricates to look similar.
Misplaced lands and cities, made-up lakes and hills, lakes are called oceans, made-up rivers, size and shapes of oceans are completely changed:
Vernal Holley’s Book of Mormon map errors:
Vernal Holley’s America map errors:
- This map of “Book of Mormon geography” is nothing like the geography described in the Book of Mormon. Almost all of the cities are in totally wrong spots. There is no information given about where Kishkumen was located, but CES Letter makes up a spot that correlates with a similar sounding modern city name.
- Five of the names didn’t even exist in Joseph Smith’s time. Rama Township was not founded until 1834, after the Book of Mormon was published. Jacobsburg is actually located far north from where this map claims (though I don’t know why Vernal Holley bothered misplacing Jacobsburg, as they placed Jacobugath in the totally wrong spot as well.)
- Most of the cherry-picked names on the maps don’t even sound similar. Shur vs. Sherbrook?
- Most of the names that did exist in Joseph Smith’s time weren’t on any maps, so how would Joseph know exactly where they were on the map?
- Many names are only similar because they reference the bible. No relationship to each other, but both early America/Canada and the Book of Mormon frequently reference the bible.
- The Book of Mormon describes the Sidon as a huge river, large enough to wash away thousands of dead bodies. Vernal Holley matches this up to the Genessee river, but the Genessee river is tiny. Practically a creek, not similar at all.
- The Book of Mormon describes the narrow neck of land as a day and a half journey between the two oceans. But the two Great Lakes are much closer to each other, a mere 15 miles, a couple-hour journey.
- Rama (aka Camorah) on the map is no where near the Book of Mormon says it is. Two names of hills out of thousands cherry-picked because they sound similar? But also, CES Letter earlier argued that “Joseph Smith and other prophets have taught” that Cumorah is in upstate New York. So now why does CES Letter say Joseph Smith got the name from somewhere way up in Canada?
See also: more errors in Vernal Holley’s maps, by FairLDS.
Lakes that become oceans. Rivers and cities that completely shift around. Names that are cherry-picked out of thousands because they kinda sound similar. How could anyone take this argument seriously? This is full conspiracy territory, a totally wacky theory. This is like the guy in Beautiful Mind who saw secret Soviet Union spy codes hidden in local newspaper clippings.
“We read much of the Hill Onidah and the Hill Ramah – all place names in the land of Joseph Smith’s youth… Why are there so many names similar to Book of Mormon names in the region where Joseph Smith lived?”
(CES Letter)
Twice. We read abut the Hill Onidah twice. Where did CES Letter get the idea that “read much” about it? It is only mentioned two times, and the Book of Mormon locates it to the west of Zarahemla, not east. It is also pronounced very differently from the Native Indian tribe that CES Letter matches it up with: Oh-nee-dah vs. One-I-da. Nice try.
Ramah is mentioned only once. Where did CES Letter get the idea that “we read much” about Ramah when it is only mentioned once? It is a name that the Nephites got from the Brass Plates, which is similar to the bible. It is one of the names that both America (or rather Canada) and the Book of Mormon got from the bible.
And did I mention that CES Letter changed their location for Ramah/Cumorah from their previous argument?
Why Would Joseph Smith Make An Obvious Blunder?
Why would Joseph Smith use his home region as a basis for a hoax book of scripture? Wouldn’t that be pretty darn obvious to people who lived there? If an Anti-Mormon “scholar” in Roy, Utah sees the geographical similarities, don’t you think people who actually lived there would see it? Wouldn’t they have said something? Why didn’t the hundreds of angry enemies native to this region, who published book after book attacking the Book of Mormon, notice these alleged similarities?
If Joseph Smith wanted to take a few cool-sounding names from a map that he maybe saw somewhere, why not place them in a totally different geography? Or why not make up totally new names? Salphia. Rumtaho. See how easy it is? The anti-Mormon narrative that Joseph Smith used his hometown geography makes no sense, and it is demonstrably false. With such fascinating and imaginative original stories, theology, and themes, it is very unlikely that the book, if it were a hoax, would need to steal its very broad descriptions of geography from anywhere.
CES Letter Logical Fallacies
| Falsehood | Most of the elements of CES Letter‘s maps by Vernal Holley are wrong, made up, or in the wrong location. |
| Confirmation Bias | CES Letter cherry-picked eleven out of thousands of names from the Book of Mormon and used modern day maps to confirm their conclusion with names that maybe sound kinda similar. You could do this with anywhere! Let’s pick a random place. Mongolia. Now let’s look at how Joseph Smith copied the geography of Mongolia for the Book of Mormon. See the striking similarities:  |
| Circular Argument | Vern Holley fabricates a Book of Mormon map that is different from how the Book of Mormon actually describes the geography, but they arrange it so that it looks exactly like upstate New York. Why does it look exactly like upstate New York, with rivers and lakes that the Book of Mormon never mentions? Well, because that is where Hill Cumorah is! Duh! The Mayans couldn’t possibly be the Lamanites, remember? Circular arguments. |
| Anachronism | CES Letter attributes names in the Book of Mormon to modern names that hadn’t been created until after it was published. |
| Strawman Argument | Not only does this fabricated map invent geography to fit the premise of the argument, it includes all kinds of invented detail that is not mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Not only does this help CES Letter‘s argument, it also boosts CES Letter‘s false argument that we ought to have enough detail to pin down the Nephite civilization to any one archaeological location. The purpose of all this additional detail is really about convincing us that the Book of Mormon gives enough indicators for us to validate or discredit the Book of Mormon by matching it with modern-day geography, which is false. Any honest map of Book of Mormon geography has very little detail. |
| Burden of Proof | Let’s say CES Letter did get the names and locations right. How are we supposed to disprove this argument? The basis of science is that all claims must be disprovable: there must be a way for a person to try to disprove it. There is no way for me to sift through historical records and prove Joseph Smith did not steal names from some place. The burden lies on CES Letter to deliver some kind of evidence–any evidence–that he did. A handful of names that kinda sound similar doesn’t cut it. |
| Cherry-picking | You could pick eleven names from any region of the world that sound similar to Book of Mormon cities. |
| Shifting Goalposts |  In a previous argument, CES Letter said the Hill Cumorah must be in upstate New York. But in their phony map of the Book of Mormon, they suddenly locate Ramah (Cumorah) way up in Canada! They put it up there in order to fit it with the land of Rama, Ontario (even though Rama didn’t get its name until after the Book of Mormon was published.) So Cumorah is in Canada now? The phony map that CES Letter uses comes from anti-Mormon Vernal Holley’s book about the similarities between the Book of Mormon and Solomon Spaulding’s writings. But later, CES Letter ditches the Solomon Spaulding narrative and claims the Book of Mormon was based on some other random book, as the Spaulding manuscript is very different after all. So CES Letter takes the phony map but ditches the entire narrative behind it. This narrative also contradicts CES Letter‘s earlier argument that Joseph Smith ripped content out of the bible. Why doesn’t the geography of the Book of Mormon resemble bible geography then? |
| Repetition | CES Letter repeats the premise of their argument, “similar to many local names and places of the region Joseph Smith lived.” |
Fake Science – In previous arguments, CES Letter demanded that Mormons validate every single thing mentioned in the Book of Mormon with plentiful physical evidence, or our narrative must be false. Ancient horses in America? But suddenly now, CES Letter shifts the goalposts and cherry-picks eleven names as evidence for their narrative. Why shouldn’t they have to validate every single name in the Book of Mormon as ripped off of Joseph Smith’s home region, if that narrative is true?
One of the Book of Mormon’s strengths is its consistent originality of themes, stories, theology, and geography. By constraining the context of the argument, swinging back and forth between too much contradiction to too little contradition, CES Letter makes this clownish argument sound almost reasonable, almost scientific.
CES Letter thus begins to set a frame for how Joseph Smith produced the Book of Mormon, which by all appearances is a miracle. How did a 14 year old boy come up with such imaginative geography? Easy. He stole it from his home town. CES Letter puts on their Indiana Jones hat and deduces where he got his geography from, where he got his stories from, and so forth. They push the frame that physical evidence is necessary for a testimony of any truth–any tiny amount of evidence validates their narrative while only 100% solid physical evidence is permitted for our narrative. So they cherry-pick a few physical bits of evidence and move the cities around as needed to support their wild and complicated narrative.
This is what is known as superstition. Not science. This is like saying Joseph Smith was visited by an ancient alien in his First Vision at Cumorah, rather than God and angels. It is unscientific, goofy, and erases all faith.
Contradiction Strategy – A requirement of the strategy being used by anti-Mormons is that each part of the Mormon belief system needs a “particular essence.” Followers of Satan can never say: “Well, we just don’t know.” They need an answer for every part, so that they can deconstruct every part, belief by belief.
This is easier to accomplish when the answer are constantly shifting and you don’t have to settle on one single truth, like Mormons have to. One day, Joseph Smith got his geography names from upstate New York. In a couple years, if we look at anti-Mormon websites they might tell us he actually got them from some book he read, or a map of Mongolia that a family friend possessed. No matter how flimsy the narrative, it is important to bolster the anti-Mormon message, whcih is that truth is only what you can see, and faith is foolish. When you boil down belief to what you can only see, you get a system of ethics founded on social justice and a culture and government that denies personal moral agency.
What does CES Letter believe in? What tenant of faith do hold that we can verify or discredit with archaeology? Global warming? Human evolution? Give us something! Why don’t they discuss an alternative belief to the beliefs of the Book of Mormon and bible, and talk about physical evidences? Instead, they nit-pick and tear down an entire belief system with unscientific appeals to fake science. They construct flimsy narratives to tear down Christian beliefs and replace it with a “general essence” that focuses only on propagating their ideology.
When you really examine all of the arguments against the Book of Mormon, the Book of Mormon wins every time. That is one reason why I believe it is a true book.Complete answers to CES Letter questions about Mormons: