This is an archived copy of a post written by Conflict Of Justice (conflictofjustice.com). Used with permission: Conflict Of Justice may not agree with any alterations made.
Lately, a narrative has crept into the church’s scholarship about how the Book of Mormon was translated. First-hand and reliable witness accounts said Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummim, but now historians say he used a “seer stone” as well. This new idea did not make its way into the Mormon community for another half a century after the translation, when a bunch of quotes suddenly appeared in Antimormon historical sources. The seer stone narrative is completely built on Antimormon sources and is full of contradictions and inconsistencies. Of course, we can’t know for sure how Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon, but evidence is pretty clear to me that it was through the Urim and Thummim.
Rumor Started By An Antimormon in 1842
The seer stone narrative started with an Antimormon named Willard Chase 20 years after the translation of the gold plates. There is no record of any seer stone before 1842, when Willard Chase published lurid stories of Joseph Smith conning people money in a treasure hunt for gold bars. Willard Chase described Joseph Smith taking possession of a single stone, after which “he began to publish abroad what wonders he could discover by looking in it.”
Provable Lies – There is no record of Joseph Smith saying anything about discovering wonders in a seer stone. Newspaper articles and witness accounts only talk about a Urim and Thummim. Besides this falsehood, Willard Chase’s account is full of other provable lies. He relates Joseph Smith searching for a silver mine on behalf of a man named Lawrence; but the mine incident involved Josiah Stowell, not Lawrence, and it happened before Joseph Smith was married, not after as Willard Chase claims.
The most significant lie is Willard Chase’s claim: “In April, 1830, I again asked Hiram for the stone which he had borrowed of me; he told me I should not have it, for Joseph Made use of it in translating his Bible.” But the Book of Mormon was already published before April 1830! Why would Joseph Smith want to translate something he already translated?
Fake David Whitmer Quotes
Zenas Gurley (1801-1871) of the RLDS splinter-sect produced a quote attributed to Book of Mormon witness David Whitmer:
“[H]e used a stone called a “Seers stone,” the “Interpreters” having been taken away from him because of transgression. The “Interpreters” were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of [the manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a “Seers stone” which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English.”
(Joseph Smith: ‘The Gift of Seeing’), via Richard van Wagoner, via Zenas Gurley, 1982
- David Whitmer did not even know about Joseph Smith and the gold plates until months after the incident with the 116 pages. I haven’t seen any account of David Whitmer acting as scribe for the translation. What evidence is there that David Whitmer was in a position to witness this at all?
- This is a fourth-hand quote produced in modern times, attributed to RLDS leader Zenas Gurley who had apostatized from the church.
- David Whitmer had become hostile towards Jopseh Smith by this time, and had joined a splinter sect, so he had every reason to lie. He denounced Joseph Smith and the church.
- David Whitmer made it clear in newspaper interviews that the Urim and Thumim and not a seer stone was used: “When I first read Mr. Traughber’s paper in the Herald of November 15th, I thought that I would not notice his attack at all, as I supposed that I was believed by the Church to be fair and truthful in my statements of other men’s views, when I have occasion to use them, and I shall make this reply only: That unless my interview with David Whitmer in January, 1876, was only a dream, or that I failed to understand plain English, I believed then, and since, and now, that he said that Joseph possessed, and used the Urim and Thummim in the translation of the inscriptions referred to, and I remember of being much pleased with that statement, as I had heard of the ‘Seer stone’ being used. And unless I dreamed the interview, or very soon after failed to recollect the occasion, he described the form and size of the said Urim and Thummim. The nearest approach to a retraction of my testimony as given . . . publicly in many places from the stand from January, 1876, till now, is, that unless I altogether misunderstood ‘Father Whitmer’ on this point, he said the translation was done by the aid of the Urim and Thummim. If he says he did not intend to convey such an impression to my mind, then I say I regret that I misunderstood him, and unintentionally have misrepresented him. But that I understood him as represented by me frequently I still affirm.” (Cook, David Whitmer Interviews, 56 via Joseph Smith Foundation) “The understanding we have about it was that when the book was discovered an angel was present and pointed the place out. In translating from the plates, Joseph Smith looked through the Urim and Thummim, consisting of two transparent pebbles set in the rim of a bow, fastened to a breastplate. He dictated by looking through them to his scribes.” (St. Louis Republican, July 16, 1884; cited in Cook, David Whitmer Interviews, 143) “ After affixing the magical spectacles to his eyes, Smith would take the plates and translate the characters one at a time. The graven characters would appear in succession to the seer, and directly under the character, when viewed through the glasses, would be the translation in English.” (Chicago Tribune, December 17, 1885, 3)
- Joseph Smith repeatedly made it clear that the Urim and Thummim was returned to him after they had been taken away, contradicting this alleged quote from David Whitmer. “”I had the joy and satisfaction of again receiving the Urim and Thummim, with which I have again commenced translating, and Emma writes for me, but the angel said that the Lord would send me a scribe, and I trust his promise will be verified. The angel seemed pleased with me when he gave me back the Urim and Thummim, and he told me that the Lord loved me, for my faithfulness and humility.” (History of Joseph Smith, p.135)
Second David Whitmer Quote:
“Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. [Page 175]One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man .”
(An Address to All Believers in Christ)
This quote was printed in a book with David Whitmer listed as the author. But it was published only one year before David Whimter’s death from old age at 87 years old. Was he functionally capable to write a book?
The stated purpose of this book was to convince Mormons that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet, “drifting into errors after translating the Book of Mormon.” David Whitmer had become hostile and had joined a splinter sect. This book was edited and published by a hostile non-LDS source. Again, this contradicts what David Whitmer clearly told reporters just two years earlier.
Third David Whitmer Quote:
“By fervent prayer and by otherwise humbling himself, the prophet, however, again found favor, and was presented with a strange oval-shaped, chocolate-colored stone, about the size of an egg, only more flat, which, it was promised, should serve the same purpose as the missing urim and thummim (the latter was a pair of transparent stones set in a bow-shaped frame and very much resembled a pair of spectacles). With this stone all of the present Book of Mormon was translated.”
(via Chicago Inter-Ocean, via The Saints Herald)
- This is another quote that was allegedly given on David Whitmer’s deathbed. Why would he wait 50 years until he is almost dead to make any mention of this important detail? Who else was there to verify that he said this besides some unknown reporter from Chicago, via the RLDS splinter sect?
- This contradicts the earlier quote which claims the seer stone was dug up in a well rather than presented to Joseph Smith.
- David Whimter was not involved in the Book of Mormon until months after the Urim and Thummim was taken away. So how would he know what it looked like?
- Again, this statement was given after David Whitmer had become hostile towards Joseph Smith and the church.
Traughber Quote
“With the sanction of David Whitmer, and by his authority, I now state that he does not say that Joseph Smith ever translated in his presence by aid of Urim and Thummim; but by means of one dark colored, opaque stone, called a “Seer Stone,” which was placed in the crown of a hat, into which Joseph put his face, so as to exclude the external light. Then, a spiritual light would shine forth, and parchment would appear before Joseph, upon which was a line of characters from the plates, and under it, the translation in English; at least, so Joseph said.”
- As I pointed out earlier, a reporter made it clear that this completely contradicts what David Whitmer had told him.”
- This contradicts the other quotes attributed to David Whitmer, which say Joseph Smith at least some times used the Urim and Thummim.
- The source is an RLDS splinter-sect member, 50 years after the events supposedly occured.
Fake Emma Smith Quotes
“In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us.”
Emma Smith Bigamon, via RLDS, 1879
- Like David Whitmer, this was quoted soon before Emma’s death. Why did she wait 50 years and until she was almost dead from old age to mention this important detail? Why did she tell only one person? Did she have full capacity to recount events from 50 years ago?
- This comes from a second-hand RLDS splinter-sect source. There is no other witness to verify that she actually said this.
- Earlier in this narrative attributed to Emma, she denies polygamy ever happened, which there is plenty of evidence for. This contradiction makes the account unreliable.
- Emma never says the “stone” is different than the Urim and Thummim, which had stones in it. Maybe she was simply referring to the Urim and Thummim.
Second Emma Smith Quote:
“Now the first that my translated, [the book] was translated by use of the Urim, and Thummim, and that was the part that Martin Harris lost, after that he used a small stone, not exactly, black, but was rather a dark color.”
Emma Smith Bidamon, via Emma Pilgrim, RLDS, 1981
- This quote was produced by the wife of a pastor for the RLDS splinter group. The first mention I could find of this quote existing is from the 1981 “The John Whitmer Historical Association Journal,” almost two centuries after the events supposedly occured. There is no evidence that the 1870 source, a letter, actually exists.
Fake Martin Harris Quote
“…that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone.”
Martin Harris, via Edward Stevenson via anonymous reporter, 1881
- This comes from the Evening News newspaper September 5, 1870 by an unknown author. Totally anonymous source.
- This quote refers to “an incident,” a singular time he he used the seer stone. This contradicts all other accounts about the stone, which say he used it often, most, or all of the time.
- Like the other quotes, this quote shows up 50 years after the events supposedly occured? Why did Martin Harris wait so long to mention such an important detail?
- Why is there no record of this anonymous 1870 newspaper interview until Antimormon Edward Stevenson quoted it years after Martin Harris’s death? That’s quite convenient for him to quote it after Martin Harris is no longer around to correct it.
Fake Oliver Cowdery Quote
“But I believed in both the Seer and the “Seer stone,” and what the First Elder announced as revelation from God, I accepted as such, and committed to paper with a glad mind and happy heart and swift pen; for I believed him to be the soul of honor and truth, a young man who would die before he would lie.”
Oliver Cowdery, 1839, forgery by R.B. Neal in 1906
- These phrases were found to have been pieced together from the Latter Day Saints’ Messenger and Advocate and An Address to All Believers in Christ. This is a proven forgery.
Fake Kenneth Godfrey Quote
“From April 12 to June 14, Joseph translated while Martin wrote, with only a curtain between them. On occasion they took breaks from the arduous task, sometimes going to the river and throwing stones. Once Martin found a rock closely resembling the seer stone Joseph sometimes used in place of the interpreters and substituted it without the Prophet’s knowledge. When the translation resumed, Joseph paused for a long time and then exclaimed, “Martin, what is the matter, all is as dark as Egypt.” Martin then confessed that he wished to “stop the mouths of fools” who told him that the Prophet memorized sentences and merely repeated them.”
(Kenneth W. Godfrey, 1988)
- I haven’t found who Godfrey’s source was for this. Was this a witness account? A rumour he heard? Something someone told him in a bar?
- This contradicts Whitmer’s and Emma’s quotes, which claim the seer stone was always used after the 116 pages were lost, rather than “sometimes.”
All Antimormon Sources
Each of these sources come from Antimormons who claimed they were quoting or publishing the words of an eye witness. All first-hand and reliable witness accounts only mention the Urim and Thummim. Why are we trusting Antimormon and apostate splinter-sect sources with zero evidence? Even if David Whitmer did actually say those things, he called Joseph Smith a fallen prophet and rejected the authority of the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods.
As Joseph Smith Foundation points out, scriptural record gives a precise method of translation through revelation that doesn’t fit the seer stone narrative. D&C 8 and 9 tell us, “I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost,” and “you must study it out in your mind.” They do not say you just look at the stone and copy down whatever words show up, whatever punctuation and misspellings you see. Brigham Young said: ” if the Book of Mormon were now to be re-written, in many instances it would materially differ from the present translation” (Journal of Discourses, 9:311), presumably because of translation corrections. Why would there be translation corrections if God translated everything and just showed it in a stone? Shouldn’t it be perfect then? It’s a narrative that just doesn’t make sense or fit what we know about revelation.
Each of these quotes and publications are modern productions. Why did they wait 50 years to say anything? Why didn’t they tell anyone except a couple reporters and RLDS leaders? As time goes by and the production of the Book of Mormon fades into ancient history, this time difference becomes harder for us to appreciate. The very idea that seer stones could be used to translate words was not even a thing until these modern Antimormon quotes cropped up. Seer stones were definitely around in Joseph Smith’s time and Joseph Smith probably had one, but that’s because it was a popular regional craze for kids at the time, like playing with Pokemon cards today. A century from now, will historians say church leaders wrote the Proclamation on the Family from a game of Pokemon cards?
How could the Book of Mormon have been produced this way? Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon in 65 days, an average 8 pages per day. How do you produce 8 pages of complex text each day, for months, with a tiny stone that gives you one word or punction mark at a time, having to double check with your scribe with each time to make sure he wrote it correctly? I know it would take me longer. Of course, this becomes much more more impossible if your narrative is that Joseph Smith was making it up.
Why It Matters
Most people shrug and say, “Well, it doesn’t matter.” A stone from the ground or a device buried with the gold plates, what difference does it make?
Well, the first problem is it gives us a false impression about revelation. If answers magically appeared for Joseph Smith in a rock, why can’t we get easy answers for our challenges? Why can’t we all find a rock in the ground to tell us what we need to know? Of course, Joseph Smith’s life and subsequent translations were not at all easy. And of course he couldn’t just look in a seer stone to figure out where the lost 116 pages went. This seer stone narrative sounds too much like superstitious fortune telling, and we are tempted to request easy answers to life instead of finding our own solutions and growing thereby. Joseph Smith by all accounts grew greatly from his experiences with the gold plates, and I don’t think that could have happened if all he had to look at a stone and repeat what it told him.
The second problem is Willard Chase’s connection of the seer stone and treasure hunting. Seer stones were apparently used to look for treasure in those days, as a children’s game like Pokemon cards today. Why would Joseph Smith use a device for finding treasure to translate a book? It is easy for Antimormons to turn this into a narrative of a treasure seeker turning his sights into religious preacher to get at people’s money, and that’s exactly what Antimormons have turned it into. It’s a narrative that doesn’t make sense, but just the imagery of a treasure seeker going into the religion business looks bad enough to make up many people’s minds about Joseph Smith. It cheapens the miracle that is the Book of Mormon.
Finally, the spiritual stone is an important symbolism we see in scripture and this narrative confuses that symbolism. The Book of Revelation and D&C talk about a “white stone” that “will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual” in order to gain great knowledge in the celestial kingdom. Doesn’t it sound like the spiritual stone is the Urim and Thumim? It does to me. It confuses our understanding of how to gain Celestial knowledge if we think the Urim and Thumim is different from spiritual stones, and spiritual stones just light up with a magic answer to whatever we want to know. Mormon apologists contort scriptures like these to justify the seer stone narrative, and what ends up happening is we get a totally false impression of how to gain spiritual knowledge, like it is some kind of parlor trick, and that is an enormous problem.
I have seen some Antimormons complain that the Brother of Jared in the Book of Mormon got an easy answer when God touched the stones for his journey to the promised land to give him light in the barges. Well, we all know from Sunday School that the Brother of Jared had to try every possible solution and then come to God asking for intervention. We also know these illuminated stones referenced back to the stone Noah used in the ark, and the ark was a symbol for the temple. So it is consistent imagery of God’s lasting presence in our refuge in the midst of the deluge on our journey to the new world. So symbolically, it was about God stepping in after all we can do, and God’s comforting presence, promise, and guidance through the storm.
I think scholarship in the church can rethink how they approach this issue. Why do apologists accept the narrative of Antimormons and apostates? They think this is the simplest answer and will make the issue go away, and fail to see the deep implications of getting it wrong. There’s a reason why Matt Stone and Trey Parker focused primarily on the seer stone in their bigoted ridicule of the church on Viacom’s cable TV channel. They see it as a weak spot, and it becomes a lot weaker when church historians and apologists give ground like this.
Fortunately, things might change. The church is taking a closer look at history. At this time when the church is putting a lot more emphasis on church history through publications like “Saints,” I hope historians will seriously look into these quotes that we see always getting thrown around, and really get to the bottom of the issue. We need a much more thorough investigation, and we must stop allowing Antimormons to drive the narrative.